Νόμοι PDF å Kindle Edition

Νόμοι PDF å Kindle Edition

10 thoughts on “Νόμοι

  1. G.R. Reader G.R. Reader says:

    And then as time went on the poets themselves introduced the reign of vulgar and lawless innovation They were men of genius but they had no perception of what is just and lawful in music; raging like Bacchanals and possessed with inordinate delights—mingling lamentations with hymns and paeans with dithyrambs; imitating the sounds of the flute on the lyre and making one general confusion; ignorantly affirming that music has no truth and whether good or bad can only be judged of rightly by the pleasure of the hearer And by composing such licentious works and adding to them words as licentious they have inspired the multitude with lawlessness and boldness and made them fancy that they can judge for themselves about melody and song And in this way the theatres from being mute have become vocal as though they had understanding of good and bad in music and poetry; and instead of an aristocracy an evil sort of theatrocracy has grown up For if the democracy which judged had only consisted of educated persons no fatal harm would have been done; but in music there first arose the universal conceit of omniscience and general lawlessness;— freedom came following afterwards and men fancying that they knew what they did not know had no longer any fear and the absence of fear begets shamelessness For what is this shamelessness which is so evil a thing but the insolent refusal to regard the opinion of the better by reason of an over–daring sort of liberty?Yes I'm talking about you Goodreads

  2. Coyle Coyle says:

    Despite having been assigned it in my Classical Political Thought class I only in the past few days finished reading Plato's Laws apologies to Dr Walsh Which is a bit unfortunate since it's bloody fantasticI confess to having had a bit of a meh relationship with Plato in the past I mean the number of his dialogues that I've actually enjoyed as opposed to just kind of thinking they're okay is pretty small basically the Ion and maybe bits of Epistle VII Sure I've read and discussed what are usually counted as his greatest works Gorgias Meno Apology and of course The Republic and even taught them in class I prefer teaching the Crito since it's short and a uick read for the students But this was the first book where Plato and I really clicked It was the first one of his that I've read where I found myself wanting to read to find out where the argument was going and to see what the next step in his argument would be Part of the reason for this may have been a translation issue I read the Penguin Classics translation of The Laws done by Trevor Saunders an excellently done work with good footnotes and introductory summaries and part of it may have been the fact that all the other times I've read Plato it was for class I can't say for sure what the reason is just that this has ended up being a book that I truly enjoyed reading and look forward to someday exposing to studentsThe way I've regularly had The Laws explained to me is that it's Plato's admission of failure In undergrad it was covered in a Greek civilization course where the prof for whom I have the deepest respect suggested that Plato had given up on trying to get anyone to care about the virtuous philosophical life and turned his final hopes on getting them at least to be good because the law said they had to In the aforementioned graduate course the professor for whom I also have the deepest respect suggested that The Laws is of an appendix to The Republic wherein the Philosopher Kings who exist at the center of the ideal state in The Republic have withdrawn from society leaving behind only the laws they crafted I suspect this view is traceable back to a philosopher named Eric Voegelin for whom I have slightly less respect but whom I occasionally enjoy reading Having finally read the book myself I think I disagree bit with both of these position Certainly it's true that Plato is issuing some kind of passionate call here after all this was his last and longest work But I think a better way to read The Laws is as a second shot at The Republic In The Republic Plato had argued that people ought to live virtuous lives within virtuous states The same argument is at work here But In The Republic when asked how such a state could ever come about Plato gives a mix of reasons including but not limited to education hard work divine intervention leadership by a philosophical elite some form of natural selection and a life of continually increasing and unrestrained virtue In other words all of the ways in which people expressly do not want to live How does Plato argue his state will come about in The Laws? By playing games drinking a life free from all but the most moderate work load and enough sex to keep the state populated Same goals different means It's true that there are differences between The Republic and The Laws perhaps most noticeable is the presence of families in The Laws which had been outlawed in The Republic in lieu of communal wives and children but these differences are very much organizational differences rather than differences in the philosophical goal of virtueSuch at least is my read on the relationship between The Republic and The Laws they're not really two radically different books they've just got two different audiences In a sense I think it could be argued that the former was written as a guide for the Philosopher Kings while the latter was written for at least the Guardian class if not for the rest of the citizen bodyThe biggest major modern issue with The Laws at least as of the writing of the translator's Introduction in 1970 is the uestion of whether or not Plato was a totalitarian This goes back to a book by Karl Popper written in the 1930s called The Open Society and Its Enemies Popper argued that any philosophy that teaches moral absolutism will eventually lead to totalitarianism since moral absolutes are non negotiables As someone who clearly believes in moral absolutes Plato must therefore be a totalitarian Variations on this theme have followed Popper but all are loosely tied back into his original thesis The translator takes a fairly middle path through the book pointing out places where Plato seems to be totalitarian and places where he is fairly liberal in his outlook the absolute euality of women for example I think the problem is we're asking an anachronistic uestion Were we to say to Plato are you a totalitarian or not? His reply would be huh? That is to say no such category existed in the Ancient World In one sense all ancient societies were totalitarian There was no distinction between the individual and the state After all an ancient would argue states are made up of bodies of individuals So when you do something wicked that makes the state that much worse And when you do something virtuous that makes the state that much better With that being the case why wouldn't the state have the authority to regulate even the most minute details of daily life should it be necessary for preserving the virtue and dignity of the society? This would not be seen as either repressive or intolerable Really the only two political categories of major concern to ancients in any meaningful sense were 1 who was allowed to participate? and 2 what was the goal of the government? Any combination of answers to these uestions could be or less totalitarian by modern standards that simply wasn't something they were interested in And this reflection is going on probably longer than it should After all I haven't even said much about the book itself I think this might have to turn into at least one post if only to keep the length of things manageableSo the short version is this is an excellent book that raises all kinds of great uestions and gives great answers to uestions like what is the role of education in society and individual life? What should be the goal of legislation? Who watches the watchmen? seriously that's one of them What is the role of the elderly in society? And so onHighly recommended

  3. Mina Soare Mina Soare says:

    The one Plato work that makes for accessible organised readingI have the greatest respect for Plato’s work and what it has meant for Western thought and Western culture To my chagrin Plato and the Socratic dialogues have proven hard to go through if you are like me the sort who sees an argument that looks strange picks it apart because believes character is flippant works on refuting it for 5 minutes realises author is dead and can’t answer does a Tasmanian Devil impersonationHowever here we are dealing with a lecture rather than a debate which will hopefully make it easier to digest the ideas If not this book might still be for you as a coherent comprehensive layout for main governance issues or for the mental exercise of ‘coding’ a fictional Polis from scratch It is very rewarding

  4. Tyler Tyler says:

    The Laws of Plato is not entirely laws It is not entirely anything really It seems to be a nice collection of aphoristic sayings wise and pithy truths and overall a collection of legal reuirements for a city whose regulation is the main focus of this work Designing a city can be difficult and whereas The Republic was largely metaphorical and none too practical pragmatism is the design for this book In addition to designing laws Plato goes step by step and designs the arguments one should have to devise said laws and even to devise said arguments to devise said laws this may seem recursive on first glance but in some cases the justification was indeed the punishment as in the justification for the law itself would most likely have been the appropriate logical foundation of the purification rites in addition to incarceration It is dry It is bland But so was the Old Testament and at times this can seem very reminiscent of that old law based text as well With very key differences and very key similarities; one major key difference was the lack of enforcement of principal on loans Another key difference was the allowance for anger for expiation of crimes If committed in anger it is curious to note this hypothetical Cretan utopia would NEVER punish with death unless a matricide or patricide The Judaic law of course would have had this individual pay for his crimes through the avenger in blood Talion Likewise the former point regarding the principal on loans is something enforceable in the Old Testament as well as many other lawbooks throughout the ages whereas in Plato's Laws it is simply relegated to the lender As if to say that the lender is the one who has the responsibility to make sure he is lending to a responsible individual And if the borrower doesn't repay it is the lender's fault This wouldn't work obviously unless you had a society which was religious based The overall banishment of usury from both books simply makes this sort of mentality apparent greed fundamentally is not compatible with an ideal utopia and is therefore a sin Overall Laws hearkens back to a time when expansion through Greek colonies was rampant and reminds one even of the incipient days of America when the Constitution had to be constructed for the benefit of civil society This magnificent work of art deals with ideas and philosophies that are in every other Platonic book it deals with the very argument of the existence of God And Genesis is the one key similarity with the Old Testament that strikes me believe it or not It is thought says the Athenian stranger that the core idea of the immortality of the soul precedes all material things Because of this fact there is a prime force from which springs all life In the union of soul and body proceed all sorts of sinful things and from which spring ideas which are harmful to humanity Plato makes the argument for predestination as well through this by simply stating that Gods have placed things where they will for their pleasure seeing that in the end virtue Good triumphs over vice Evil Because of this the struggle is made entertaining even though there is bad than good Because of an eventuality The strange capricious chaotic and overall aphoristic argument of the Nietzscheans regarding will and exertion on reality is even dealt with here Simply the fact that we can create ourselves or in part create reality is completely denied and shot down with Chapter X of this beautiful work of art Everything is well placed everything divine and if everything is followed a utopia will proceed Clearly even this ridiculously dry litigious work is not the exact outline for a city however it is the backbone from which a utopia springs And whereas The Republic is a way for a man to live his life it could be said The Laws are the way for a republic to live its life

  5. Amy Amy says:

    There is a popular saying in the film world that directors spend their whole careers making the same film over and over again Plato spent his whole career working out the ideas laid out in Laws Some of it is in the Republic most of it can be found in other dialogues Stray observation; why couldn’t he just ask Athenian stranger what his name is and give him a bit of dignity rather than be forever nameless?

  6. Garrett Cash Garrett Cash says:

    This mammoth work is one of Plato's most important and not very widely read books There's good reason for this while there are important passages in this the work is ultimately like reading an Ancient Greek version of Leviticus In other words it's really really boring

  7. Jood Jood says:

    One has to read The Laws AFTER reading The Republic in order to see the Huge deference between them The Laws is basically a correction and adding to what was missing in The Republic which was written decades before The Laws It shows in the book how Plato became wiser with age passionate and serious about explaining the importance of Education Arts Culture and Religion in the virtue of citizens and sitting up very strict legislations for all of that It also shows how he hated unwritten laws regulating family affairs so he wrote about that as willVirtue virtue virtue you will see allot about virtue because basically in Plato's opinion without virtue a country WILL fall into pieces In my opinion The Republic was fun and much less difficult to readI loved the book it showed a different part of Plato BUT only because of the curfew I was able to finish it in less than three months hahaI would definitely recommend this book to people who love philosophy

  8. Otto Lehto Otto Lehto says:

    I did not get much out of this one unfortunately It is not Plato at his finest but it contains some fascinating passages on the nature of the soul the governance of human virtue the ualities of a good ruler and similar topics Unfortunately the book is conservativereactionary long winded and boring Politically it represents a combination of traditional ideas of governance based on the mutually complementary traditions of Sparta and Athens with innovative ideas of governance based on Plato's own philosophy The traditional ideas of governance are uninteresting philosophically except for Plato's attempts to extract philosophical meaning out of them The innovative ideas of governance while interesting philosophically are dangerous in their mix of political naivete and gleeful collectivism Ethically it likewise combines traditional and innovative ideas but most of this is simply a rehash of similar discussions on virtue in Plato's other dialogues including The Republic and several others What this regrettable book desperately needs is an abridged edition without all the Mosaic Law nonsense I intend to read this again with attention and care some day Not sure if it deserves it But Plato at his worst is still Plato

  9. Illiterate Illiterate says:

    The Laws has little of the playful wit that makes Plato fun to read even when he's spouting garbage

  10. Billie Pritchett Billie Pritchett says:

    I'll open myself up for criticism and confess that I did not actually finish Plato's Laws I made it all the way through Book VIII then I started skimming and when that proved just as boring I went and looked at the secondary literature about the work There's a great summary at Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy in an entry titled Plato on Utopia available HEREPlato's Laws is a work written by Plato in his later years when he's an old man Interestingly Plato had been prior to writing The Laws an advisor to a tyrant in Sicily whose rule Plato was supposed to guide Instead Plato landed in prison Before the problem with the tyrant Plato had written in his younger days The Republic where he had imagined a just society to be the mirror of the just soul where wise kings rule spirited soldiers and pleasure seeking working classes just as people justly control their souls by having their wisdom control their motivations and desiresThere is nothing in The Laws approximating this tripartite division of the soul or of the just society like that in The Republic Nor is there a robust sense of the ideas commonly associated with Plato like his view that knowledge is a soul's recollection of what was already imprinted on it before the time of birth although some views like his view that what we tend to experience of reality are crude approximations of eternal forms is retained even if expressed a bit differently The later Plato is concerned with how the human condition came to be as it is today and how we can recover that earlier sense For the later Plato then there is a perfect and eternal order but it might have been for all he or anyone knows a really existing conditionThe later Plato believes that once upon a time God governed the world and human beings lived a harmonious life without need or strong desire People lived and shared everything in common Then as people began to control of their own affairs they began to create ineuality and need and be ruled by their strong desires Plato writes in The Laws contra The Republic that the most perfect society was like this society where people live in harmony and share everything in common But Plato does not think we can recover that society and so proposes the second most ideal society the details of which are about as enjoyable as eavesdropping on a city plannerI invite you to read the following passage and see if you have the patience for reading pages and pages of the following sorts of descriptionsThe temples are to be placed all round the agora and the whole city built on the heights in a circle for the sake of defence and for the sake of purity Near the temples are to be placed buildings for the magistrates and the courts of law; in these plaintiff and defendant will receive their due and the places will be regarded as most holy partly because they have to do with the holy things and partly because they are the dwelling places of holy Gods and in them will be held the courts in which cases of homicide and other trials of capital offenses may fitly take place As to the walls Megillus I agree with Sparta in thinking that they should be allowed to sleep in the earth and that we should not attempt to disinter them; there is a poetical saying which is finely expressed that “walls ought to be of steel and iron and not of earth; besides how ridiculous of us to be sending out our young men annually into the country to dig and to trench and to keep off the enemy by fortifications under the idea that they are not to be allowed to set foot in our territory and then that we should surround ourselves with a wall which in the first place is by no means conducive to the health of cities and is also apt to produce a certain effeminacy in the minds of the inhabitants inviting men to run thither instead of repelling their enemies and leading them to imagine that their safety is due not to their keeping guard day and night but that when they are protected by walls and gates then they may sleep in safety; as if they were not meant to labour and did not know that true repose comes from labour and that disgraceful indolence and a careless temper of mind is only the renewal of trouble But if men must have walls the private houses ought to be so arranged from the first that the whole city may be one wall having all the houses capable of defence by reason of their uniformity and euality towards the streets The form of the city being that of a single dwelling will have an agreeable aspect and being easily guarded will be infinitely better for security Until the original building is completed these should be the principal objects of the inhabitants; and the wardens of the city should superintend the work and should impose a fine on him who is negligent; and in all that relates to the city they should have a care of cleanliness and not allow a private person to encroach upon any public property either by buildings or excavations Further they ought to take care that the rains from heaven flow off easily and of any other matters which may have to be administered either within or without the city The guardians of the law shall pass any further enactments which their experience may show to be necessary and supply any other points in which the law may be deficientI uoted such a full passage to give you a sense for the sheer tedium of reading this dialogue This dialogue incidentally reads the list like a dialogue of any of Plato's dialogues I have read There are lengthy passages like this that go on for passages with hardly any of the interlocutors asking uestions or making commentsIt is clear what the message of Plato's Laws is The purpose of this just society Plato is creating has the sole purpose of being as most near to what it was like in the early days when people were ruled by God and when the people were the most virtuous The aim of this society is to cultivate the highest virtue in people The citizens are to learn through gymnastics music persuasion about life matters and a strong education how to be virtuous and to have their virtue maintained Unfortunately so much of the trivia of the dialogue do not seem to be necessarily related to this It is hard to for example see how the placement of temples with respect to the marketplace will make a society less just or the people less capable of virtue At the very least it's difficult to see why such things need to be spelled out Maybe they do Could be my lack of imagination

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Νόμοι ➾ [Download] ➻ Νόμοι By Plato ➷ – Larringtonlifecoaching.co.uk The Laws Plato's longest dialogue has for centuries been recognized as the most comprehensive exposition of the practical conseuences of his philosophy a necessary corrective to the visionary and utop The Laws Plato's longest dialogue has for centuries been recognized as the most comprehensive exposition of the practical conseuences of his philosophy a necessary corrective to the visionary and utopian Republic In this animated encounter between a foreign philosopher and a powerful statesman not only do we see reflected in Plato's own thought eternal uestions of the relation between political theory and practice but we also witness the working out of a detailed plan for a new political order that embodies the results of Plato's mature reflection on the family the status of women property rights criminal law and the role of religion and the fine arts in a healthy republic.

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  • Νόμοι
  • Plato
  • English
  • 05 February 2014

About the Author: Plato

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