Mentor, Message, and Miracles PDF/EPUB » Mentor,

Mentor, Message, and Miracles PDF/EPUB » Mentor,

Mentor, Message, and Miracles (A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Volume 2) ❮Epub❯ ➢ Mentor, Message, and Miracles (A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Volume 2) ➡ Author John P. Meier – This book is the second volume in John Meier's masterful trilogy on the life of Jesus In it he continues his uest for the answer to the greatest puzzle of modern religious scholarship Who was Jesus To This book is the second volume in John Meier's masterful trilogy on the life of Jesus In it he continues his uest for the answer to the greatest puzzle of modern Mentor, Message, PDF/EPUB or religious scholarship Who was Jesus To answer this Meier imagines the following scenario Suppose that a Catholic a Protestant a Jew and an agnostic were locked up in the bowels of the Harvard Divinity School library and not allowed to emerge until they had hammered out a consensus document on who Jesus of Nazareth was and what he intended A Marginal Jew is what Meier thinks that document would reveal Volume one concluded with Jesus approaching adulthood Now in this volume Meier focuses on the Jesus of our memory and the development of his ministry To begin Meier identifies Jesus's mentor the one person who had the greatest single influence on him John the Baptist All of the Baptist's fiery talk about the end of time had a powerful effect on the young Jesus and the formulation of his key symbol of the coming of the kingdom of God And finally we are given a full investigation of one of the most striking manifestations of Jesus's message Jesus's practice of exorcisms hearings and other miracles In all Meier brings to life the story of a man Jesus who by his life and teaching gradually made himself marginal even to the marginal society that was first centuryPalestine.

10 thoughts on “Mentor, Message, and Miracles (A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, Volume 2)

  1. BHodges BHodges says:

    The enlightened Thomas Jefferson took a pair of scissors to the New Testament cutting out all the objectionable fanciful miracle tales in order to show Jesus in his rational light as a great moral teacher Morton Smith took a magnifying glass to the gospels and to other ancient texts to make Jesus the magician appear from thin air More recently Jesus has been painted as a kindhearted rabbi preaching a message of love Of course such portraits of Jesus seem extremely relevant at the time they are drawn but as John Meyer notes perhaps nothing ages as fast as relevance His goal is to separate the wheat from the chaff and discover through strict historical analysis what sort of picture the original scripts portray Volume two of his series is a remarkable and remarkably thick book on the uest for the historical Jesus The author raises and tries to answer uestions about what can and can't be confidently said about the historical person Jesus based on a specifically outlined methodology of historical inuiry Modest data dictate modest uestions and claims he notes p 517 and the book is suffused with this attitude Modest doesn't mean the uestions aren't difficult or important but that the data available helps dictate what can reasonably be said about the historical Jesus as opposed to the Jesus of confessional or de confessional faith At times the narrative gets bogged down in what feels like nit picky debates over particular words phrases sources and claims Meier did his best to minimize excessive pedantry by using substantive footnotes at the end of each chapter The footnotes can be extremely long at times for instance ch 17 is 11 pages long the footnotes in a smaller font comprise 12 pages This is a strength in that Meier has tried to be as thorough and fair as possible but a weakness in that the footnotes can begin to feel like dead weight interruptions In volume two Meier focuses on the public ministry of Jesus beginning with his relation to John the Baptist his proclamation of a Kingdom of God both coming and partly present and the miracle stories In the end he discovers that a watered down miracle less Jesus doesn't wash in the sources He refrains from pronouncing an opinion on whether actual miracles occurred he calls this a theological uestion Those who claim to be 'only' historians must wait outside the confessional door p 113 He focuses instead on whether the miracle stories can be attributed to the earliest sources rather than being later creations by the early church to venerate their leader It's really uite a remarkable book with centuries of scholarship and argument behind it I highly recommend it

  2. John Alvord John Alvord says:

    Having been a devotee of sorts of Marcus Borg and J Dominic Crossan I am now a current devotee of John Meier His work is truly magisterial I can only agree with Burton Visotky's appraisal that A Marginal Jew is methodologically impeccable and shot through with brilliance His work is decidedly non ideological unlike Borg and Crossan balanced and fair; I believe that the four volume series will be the standard by which future work on the Jesus of history will be measured for years to come Not a uick read by any means 1300 pages down about 1600 to go but well worth the time for anyone who is passionate and serious about what we can and cannot know about the historical figure who than anyone else has shaped and continues to shape our collective consciousness

  3. David Szatkowski David Szatkowski says:

    This is the second of five in the series If you do not have a background in the historical critical study of the Bible volumes one will be very valuable to you The first volume lays out methodology sources historical uestions etc that are critical to understanding the historical research in this volume This volume looks what events in the Gospels seem to be part of the historical life of Jesus and which events are probably from the early Church or the evangelists and why This is an excellent resource for anyone wishing to understand the scriptures better

  4. Kevin Kevin says:

    A truly magnificent book Less partisan than other historical Jesus studies One of Meier’s theses is that Jesus began his ministry as a disciple of John I summarize his argument here a shorter read from a comparable perspective see Ehrman’s Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium While 90% of their conclusions overlap one interesting divergence is that Ehrman thinks Jesus’ reputation as a miracle worker accrued after his life; Meier thinks he had this reputation among his contemporaries

  5. Cooper Renner Cooper Renner says:

    I skipped big chunks of this one not just the very scholarly and detailed notes but also large portions of the central—Meier does a fine job analyzing the ins and outs of the gospel stories as they have come down to us and trying to ascertain which ones or which parts of them may actually have a historical source in the historical Jesus But unless the reader wants encyclopedic knowledge of these “events” it simply becomes too much and too much that follows the same argumentative tracks after a while

  6. Jacob McGill Jacob McGill says:

    I uit reading this after about 300 pages I find the idea that we can know what Jesus said with any certainty to be absurd from the stance of science The author accepts wordsphrases based on a tower of assumptions that will come down uickly when one proves false I found myself coming up with several other possibilities that could be just as likely I think we need to accept that we don't have any proof of M L or any of the theories of who looked at what If we suppose that Luke used sources as he said he did then it seems likely that he made choices about what history he thought was right That doesn't mean he chose the right ones but it does seem to cause problems for L and other theories that Meier puts forthBeyond this rant his biggest problem is that it is all discussion in the abstract Why should we even care which Gospel has the authentic saying of Jesus? This book just goes through one saying after another of Jesus and picks what was the real saying wo ever moving to why this is important I mean lets talk about The Kingdom of Godnot just define what actual words Jesus said in the Kingdom of God sayings At this point it just becomes a waste of time and paperFinally his use of historysources to prove what is authentic is very short sighted He does not integrate other fields into his research and I often felt that some basic reading in literary theory would make his distinctions unimportant He freuently brings up differences in the text or argues for one word here or there that honestly don't make a difference in the saying or idea We also have to deal with an author translating a saying from Aramaic into Greek which causes him even problems; not to mention that Jesus probably saiddid a lot of similar things as he traveled Meier wants to expect growth in Jesus so why couldn't his sayingsteachings develop over time? Think The Lord's Prayer in Luke vs Matthew as an example

  7. Jeffrey Jeffrey says:

    In Volume II Meier continues his survey on the historical Jesus by tackling three new areas a the Mentor relationship between Jesus of Nazareth and John the Baptist b Jesus' Message centralized on the Kingdom of God now but not yet and c the Miracle workings of Jesus of Nazareth exorcisms healings raising of the dead and so called nature miracles A conclusion in crude and brief terms Jesus of Nazareth was a Jewish eschatological prophet much like John but taught both the immediacy and end time eschalon punctuating this with miracles most notably exorcism and healings Meier stresses that the miracles are strongly attested but that it is the claim and historical event that he is arguing for not the philosophicaltheological conclusion that a miracle actually happened In this work we have a strong rebuff of the 1st uests liberalized moralized Jesus ie eschatological and miracle working; an excellent work in the 3rd uest view of Jesus supporting x3 facts that we can know about the historical Jesus ie he was contemporaneous and had relationship with John the Baptist who baptized him Jesus taught the Kingdom of God and Jesus was viewed by his contemporaries as a miracle worker

  8. Brent Wilson Brent Wilson says:

    Monster sized volume too big to be reader friendly really Could have been divided into two or three booksMeier is so thorough in his treatment of Jesus' miracles he than satisfies your curiosity about the scholarship and evidence and positions of different thinkers In the process of being so thorough I came to respect and trust Meier's point of view and value the exegesisI didn't read every word of this The footnotes are something to return to as a reference resource I particularly valued the later chapters on raising the dead resurrection etc the major miracles Meier concludes that most or many of these stories have their origins traceable back to Jesus which I agree withOverall a very rich and satisfying resource

  9. Chad Gibbons Chad Gibbons says:

    Absolutely incredible Meier has taken the last two hundred years of historical Jesus research and condensed it into now roughly 3000 pages across 4 volumes In this his second volume in the ground breaking series Meier turns the historical methodology he outlined in volume one onto John the Baptist Jesus' message of the Kingdom of God and lastly his miracles These volumes have set themselves up as the standard for historical Jesus studies today and will ultimately prove to be as influential as Schweitzer's 'The uest for the Historical Jesus' was a hundred years ago Anyone interested in the subject need look no further And anyone wanting to speak out on the subject must remain silent until reading this Meier is not just writing about history he's making history

  10. Andrew Davis Andrew Davis says:

    Well too much for the amateur historian This is a real McCoy no wonder with its extensive comments to be studied by PhD candidatesThe Kingdom of God is a central part of Jesus’ proclamation He must have purposely made it so since in general it cannot be said to be central to Old Testament or to the umran literatureThe Lord’s Prayer is an uniue example of prayer attributed to Jesus It stands as a sole exceptionThe meaning of the first half of Lord’s prayer is Father reveal yourself in all your power and glory hallowed be your name by coming to rule as king your kingdom come

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